Holding people

[robinbloke]

So some Brits were held in Iran for 13 days and the foreign office has been trying to get them released after they (probably unknowingly) wandered onto a disputed island.
They've just been released after thirteen days. Well, frankly I think they're lucky - if they'd have been arrested here they could have another fifteen days of being locked up before even being charged.
Another seventy seven if Blair had got his way.

Comments

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Human rights of suspects are more important. What's the point defending our society if the attackers just say, look, what we've done has persuaded their government to make their society more restrictive, we should do it even more so they lock up without trial anybody who looks a little weird, then they will be just like us.

[ua-meruti.livejournal.com]

Funny, in the way I would prefer to see our society, the human rights of the potential victims of an atrocity, or their families who would have to bury their loved ones, are far more important.

The reason that the police requested this (and yes it was them that asked for this, not the politicians suggesting it) is because investigating a terrorism case isn't as cut and dry as, say, an ordinary murder. Mostly because most cases happen after the fact whereas anti-terrorism is preferably done before the event. It also takes a lot longer to investigate - hence the proposed increase - and during this time if the suspect is free and is a member of a terrorist cell, then they have a really good chance of disappearing. If that person is locked up, they theoretically can't go anywhere. That's why they proposed it.
If the police are just locking someone up with no evidence to suggest why, then the weekly judicial review will tell them to release the subject.

It's not like the police were proposing to routinely round up all Muslims in an area and then hold them for 90 days while they screened them for terrorist links. This was for genuine suspects who very likely actually do have links to groups, or worse are actually planning an attack.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I will edit that to make it sound more civilised.

I didn't mean specifically more important than the families of the people who got blown up, I meant more important than the chance that potential bombers would succeed given the police powers that were in place before this bill was passed.

Where you posted the either/or question, I was going for the thing closest to my opinion, which is not either of the two extremes you posed.

[ua-meruti.livejournal.com]

The trouble is, the extremes do seem to be getting forgotten (not necessarily by your-good-self, or anyone else here - I'm casting a generalisation here).
Sure not every potential bomber or attack is going to kill lots of people. But some will.
Now, the question comes, does the human rights of suspects who have been held with a good reason (i.e. the police believe that they're planning something or are aiding someone who is - bear in mind this will have to be proven before a judge every week before they can hold them too long), outweigh the human rights of the suspects potential victims if they are released and thus have an opportunity to carry out their plan?
Of course not.
But at what point is a suspect's rights more important than the victim's. At that point then yes, they should be released, and that's why there has to be a weekly review.
As you may have sussed, if there wasn't to have been a weekly review, I wouldn't have been nearly as vocal in my defence of this bill.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Now I know about the weekly review, I am not so opposed to the bill, but I still don't agree with it. I ought to admit that I have a personal interest - my brother got arrested in the US for being a terrorist, because he had Games Workshop character sheets in his luggage.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

*blink* Character sheets are terrorist materials?

[rirekon.livejournal.com]

Lists of units with associated weapons and equipment, probably plans for deployment too.
Personally if you're going to arrest someone for carrying anything GW related it should be for possession of offensive weapons... those D6 can really hurt!

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Good job he wasn't playing Squad leader or similar.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

They thought they were profiles of intended terrorist targets, despite saying "Race: Orc" and having descriptions of nonexistent weapons on them. They were also partially in my brother's writing, which is abnormally messy (dyspraxia) and which the US customs officials thought was a secret code.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Oh dear; how long did they hold him up for?

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

I could go and look, but that would involve reading my brother's journal until August or September last year and I'd rather clean my toenails out with a teaspoon.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Ah righty, gotcha. But thanks :)

[ua-meruti.livejournal.com]

They are if they're from GW :)

I've had guns pointed at me by armed police for suspected terrorism, it's fun, honest.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

You have? What were you up to, you dodgey character, rolling dice aggresively?

[ua-meruti.livejournal.com]

I was putting in network cabling in an office.
I got machine guns pointed at me for my troubles.