Is there anybody out there?

[robinbloke]

After a conversation with musingsofallama last night the subject of belief came up, or at least a crunch point belief. Now some people might feel apathetic towards if any divine force/spirit/entity/etc exists, however it was put forward that in a crisis everyone would put their arms out and call for aid for divine intervention.
I objected slightly to that, I may say "Oh gawd, not again." on occasion, but this is more (for me) a figure of speech and not any direct call for assistance from the almighty (or anything/one/etc else for that matter).
When pushed I'll admit I'm still unsure exactly what I am, I believe in what I can see on a fairly direct and practical basis and haven't experienced anything that makes me feel anything beyond... but that's somewhat wandering from the path... the question for today (from myself at least) is...

[Poll #523424]

Comments

[zotz]

That's the old argument that there are no atheists in foxholes.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Not heard it put quite that way, but yes, that was the gist of it.

[nevecat.livejournal.com]

I'm a theist. (Which is entirely different from atheist ;)

Roughly - yes {gods, monsters, demons, angels, things-that-go-bump-in-the-night...} may well be Out There. I see absolutely no positive reason why this means _I_ should offer them any veneration, supplication or adoration.

This is largely because I believe that if such things exist (and I'm had no conclusive proof that they don't), they thrive on attention - as described popularly by Pratchett but he probably nicked it off someone - therefore, until such time as it can be proved to me what makes them tick, and that they're trustworthy, they're getting none of it from me.

Essentially, it's the Constantine viewpoint. Just because you know the buggers are there, doesn't mean you have faith in them ;)

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Now thats a view of the supernatural/etc I can appreciate :)

[serena-lesley.livejournal.com]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/kissycat1000/393378.html

[atreic.livejournal.com]

On the same subject, I've often heard it debated whether there are more old people in church now because religion is dying out, and they're the remnants, or if they are closer to death and have started going to church out of crisis mentality...

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

I'd personally lean towards believing the latter, in that once death starts a-knocking you want some insurance...

[vyvyan.livejournal.com]

This sort of thing makes me feel especially impressed with my gran, who was deeply religious for nearly all her life, but who recently (now that she is very old and frail and has suffered several falls) gave up her faith entirely. Apparently, she had been watching several TV programs about the natural world and evolution, and suddenly decided that "this God business was all a load of nonsense"!

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

That's much in reverse to normal; she must be some kind of super anti-granny!

[scy11a.livejournal.com]

Doesn't stop me going to church so we can have E christened, but hey - any excuse for a party!

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

That's just social networking ;)

[crocodilewings.livejournal.com]

I think there's some sort of base spiritual-related part of the human psyche that gets up and does a dance in times of crisis and general mankiness, certainly. I ranted about this a lot in the latter throes of my depression. It didn't make me believe in any almighty forces, but it made me resent that lack of belief a hell of a lot.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Yep, well frankly if the big G was up there I would certainly do dancing and whatnot as required but frankly with the state of the planet and todays miracles consisting largely of Mary appearing in slices of toast I can't help but feel that the G man needs an overhaul of his PR department rather sharpish.

[crocodilewings.livejournal.com]

This is one of the problems I have with the notion of God, also one of the (in my opinion) compelling arguments in favour of atheism. You've made the whole of creation; you're an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful entity responsible for all the cosmos in its vastness and all the unique tiny splendour of every minor detail. Why would you need any kind of validation from some backwards species of monkey-bipeds on some tiny backwater planet?

The Judeo-Christian god, by their own literature, is an angry, jealous, impulsive and violent creature, prone to mood swings, narcissism and insecurity. These aren't really traits I'd associate with a being of infinite wisdom. If it was the backstory to a movie it'd get logic-bombed to hell and back. To me, it sounds like someone with an agenda or artistic vision formulated some very sloppy ideas to push his wishes forwards, without actually thinking through the repercussions of those ideas (or without having an educated enough culture to allow him to see the flaws) and it happened to catch on.

Man, it would seem, most certainly made God in his own image.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

The first half of your argument I'll have to remember, very nicely put. :)

I suppose for the latter you could argue that our planet is an experiment but then if you're all knowing why bother doing anything? You know exactly what's going to happen from the start right from the Roman empire to Spandau Ballet and George W. Bush...

[ex-lark-asc.livejournal.com]

My attitide to religion is basically that it's actually irrelevant whether I believe or not, because it's not a real phenomenon but something the human mind invents entirely to comfort itself in times of crisis. Terry Pratchett had it right when he said the human mind isn't designed to cope with reality; religion is part of the 'comforting pink fog' that allows you to cope day-to-day. In this specific case it helps you cope by putting a 'human', notionally caring face on the entirely motiveless and non-caring universe; makes the otherwise arbitrary nature of things that happen seem more comprehensible and gives you someone you can at least pretend you're discussing it with. Never underestimate the capacity of the human mind to cope by refusing to actually cope and creating a functional delusion instead..

I seem to need rather less of that fog than some people, so I don't bother with religion (and as a consequence of being naturally knurd, privately consider people who can't cope without gods to have a screw loose somewhere). I've been commonly heard to state that if I wasn't a hopeless skeptic I'd be a pagan, since it's the world's only disorganised religion as far as I can tell, and thereby has never started a jihad or changed whole societies for the worse, unlike Christianity and most other major world religions.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

So you prefer your own delusions for crisis situations to other peoples? :)

[ex-lark-asc.livejournal.com]

I don't really get delusions in crisis situations; not of the 'suddenly believing in really outre stuff' variety. The closest I come is taking to using herbal remedies for the stress, which isn't that mad since they quite often do have measurable effects when scientists eventually study them, and a persistent tendency to overestimate how saintly anyone who happened to come and help me out the last time I was in a crisis is.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

I'll admit certainly that herbal remedies are good, scented candles get a definate relaxed thumbs up from me.

[puddingcat.livejournal.com]

I used to dither because the universe seemed so incredible, yet I couldn't get my head round the idea of an intelligent creator.

Now I'm hardcore atheist, and it seems all the more amazing for existing *without* godlike input.

I do believe in some "Mysteries of the Unexplained", but I believe they *will* be explainable in terms of science in the future (the old "Henry VIII would consider TV to be magic" argument).

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

It's all done with smoke and quantum-mirrors...

[megadog.livejournal.com]

Count me as an Apatheist. There is no God, but I'm not really bothered about the issue.

[crag-du.livejournal.com]

I do believe in divine forces, but more as metaphor for ideas and concepts, than as literal thing. Have been doing a lot of restructuring rescently, working to improve the practicality of the interface, though have deliberatly left it rather vague.
As far as calling for aid goes, I think you have to help yourself ("thou art god"?), though there's some sense in using a suitable tool to focus with.