On names and truth
Nov. 13th, 2002 10:29 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
robinbloke"Truth is relative"
As is, frankly, just about everything really. Relative to perception, relative to beliefs, relative to knowledge, ideals, codes of behavior, etc etc etc.
But what is truth, or more specifically (since the former question has been flogged, horsewhipped, smacked, slapped, poked and humped to death over the millenia) when does a lie become the truth? When it is accepted by more others than not? When you do not know otherwise? When the source/definition that defined it as 'true' or 'false' no longer exist to dispute it from fact?
Why do I ask? Well, this has boiled up from some RP related thoughts to a more general pondering all from a simple thing relating to names.
I have a character in an RP that, by his very nature, is (in basic terms) a compulsive liar, no fact, piece of truth, random bollox or otherwise complete pants is too much for him to spout, now this isn't as easy as it sounds and occasionally I slip when playing him and speak the truth, therefore having to tag something onto the end to make the statement contain some kind of element of untruth, or do some other such randomness.
But, I'm diversifying slightly. Names in this case, names are what I'm thinking about here. I'll use a the actual example as it's something I've been idly pondering for amusements sake in relation to more wider things.
One of the first things my character ever said to someone was
"Hi, I'm Fox."
Now given that he's a compulsive liar this statement can be known to be blatantly untrue, especially since everyone knows that the character, by the very nature of what he is, cannot actually speak the whole truth and nothing but. (Interesting times if he ever lands in court!)
But this aside, everyone calls him by this name, and this initial statement has faded from memory perhaps as noone recalls that when he introduced himself his statement was a lie - what his "real" name is exactly isn't important, but what is important that people call him Fox, even the ones that aren't aware of this initial statement.
What the slowly emerging point of all this is, is the fact that this characters name isn't actually 'Fox' still a lie? Because the lie has become so emeshed in the world that everyone accepts and calls him by this name regardless, most likely the first statement long having faded from memory and when Fox is gone, one way or another, the element that knew that this was a lie is gone so does this become a truth, because no facts remain to dispute it otherwise.
And also what is your name? Something that is a truth? A label? Just some abstract concept that we assign or something else entirely?
Footnote: (I seem to be doing a lot of these lately)
Playing a compulsive liar can be great fun to mess with people's minds. You can plant obvious lies, or more in order to hide another lie you want people to accept as truth. As a simple example...
Person X is a known compulsive liar, person Y stops person X to ask where person Z went.
Person X points in a direction and replies.
"They went that way, and they had a huge green mushroom on their head!"
There is a quite obvious lie in the statement, as it's fairly probable that person Z did not have a huge green mushroom on their head, but if person Y looks where person X is pointing and trusts (as much you can someone who spouts nonsense) them, then off they will go, whichever way person X has pointed.
Mind games. I play a pooka, don't tell me that their frailty isn't just the most wonderful thing about them, I love messing with truth and perception and as a pooka you can bend it over a table and 'Zilla it six ways to Sunday as people struggle to wonder what the hell you're talking about, or mean, or are doing!
So if nothing else, don't play a pooka that just uses reverse logic to play his frailty, or when you do... double blind them ;) they're looking for a lie - so give them one.
As is, frankly, just about everything really. Relative to perception, relative to beliefs, relative to knowledge, ideals, codes of behavior, etc etc etc.
But what is truth, or more specifically (since the former question has been flogged, horsewhipped, smacked, slapped, poked and humped to death over the millenia) when does a lie become the truth? When it is accepted by more others than not? When you do not know otherwise? When the source/definition that defined it as 'true' or 'false' no longer exist to dispute it from fact?
Why do I ask? Well, this has boiled up from some RP related thoughts to a more general pondering all from a simple thing relating to names.
I have a character in an RP that, by his very nature, is (in basic terms) a compulsive liar, no fact, piece of truth, random bollox or otherwise complete pants is too much for him to spout, now this isn't as easy as it sounds and occasionally I slip when playing him and speak the truth, therefore having to tag something onto the end to make the statement contain some kind of element of untruth, or do some other such randomness.
But, I'm diversifying slightly. Names in this case, names are what I'm thinking about here. I'll use a the actual example as it's something I've been idly pondering for amusements sake in relation to more wider things.
One of the first things my character ever said to someone was
"Hi, I'm Fox."
Now given that he's a compulsive liar this statement can be known to be blatantly untrue, especially since everyone knows that the character, by the very nature of what he is, cannot actually speak the whole truth and nothing but. (Interesting times if he ever lands in court!)
But this aside, everyone calls him by this name, and this initial statement has faded from memory perhaps as noone recalls that when he introduced himself his statement was a lie - what his "real" name is exactly isn't important, but what is important that people call him Fox, even the ones that aren't aware of this initial statement.
What the slowly emerging point of all this is, is the fact that this characters name isn't actually 'Fox' still a lie? Because the lie has become so emeshed in the world that everyone accepts and calls him by this name regardless, most likely the first statement long having faded from memory and when Fox is gone, one way or another, the element that knew that this was a lie is gone so does this become a truth, because no facts remain to dispute it otherwise.
And also what is your name? Something that is a truth? A label? Just some abstract concept that we assign or something else entirely?
Footnote: (I seem to be doing a lot of these lately)
Playing a compulsive liar can be great fun to mess with people's minds. You can plant obvious lies, or more in order to hide another lie you want people to accept as truth. As a simple example...
Person X is a known compulsive liar, person Y stops person X to ask where person Z went.
Person X points in a direction and replies.
"They went that way, and they had a huge green mushroom on their head!"
There is a quite obvious lie in the statement, as it's fairly probable that person Z did not have a huge green mushroom on their head, but if person Y looks where person X is pointing and trusts (as much you can someone who spouts nonsense) them, then off they will go, whichever way person X has pointed.
Mind games. I play a pooka, don't tell me that their frailty isn't just the most wonderful thing about them, I love messing with truth and perception and as a pooka you can bend it over a table and 'Zilla it six ways to Sunday as people struggle to wonder what the hell you're talking about, or mean, or are doing!
So if nothing else, don't play a pooka that just uses reverse logic to play his frailty, or when you do... double blind them ;) they're looking for a lie - so give them one.
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no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 03:11 am (UTC)Anyway, think of it as a mathematical function. Your character may be Fox, but he is not only Fox; that isn't the whole truth. "Fox" may be him, but it's not a one to one function. He's many other things as well, some of them exceedingly odd indeed :p
no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 03:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 03:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 04:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 05:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 03:54 am (UTC)As for names . . . well, as anyone from Scotland will tell you, your name is what you're known by. If you tell people that your name's Fox, then you're Fox.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 07:52 am (UTC)Another of my Pooka characters (a bumble bee childling) used to change her name every time she said it, which meant nobody every knew what to call her and ended up calling her by the alst name she'd mentioned... Which she would then completely ignore because she'd already forgotten what she'd said :). I don't see the Pooka's Fraility as a fraility really... As a player it's great fun, though you do have to think fast on occassions when you get to the end of a 'sentance' and realise you haven't lied yet, so you have to continue on at an ever increasing speed until you're flung off the original point and fast approaching the end of the solar system *grin* The many times Sera had to start telling a story half way through a normal "how are you?" :) The great thing was that because she spent so much time hunting down dangerous chimera in and out of the Dremaing, no one could actually tell if these stories were real or not.